The Dillinger Escape Plan interview

Just before Dillinger Escape Plan took the stage in Glasgow, I was privileged enough to spend some time with Ben Weinmann (and a bit with Greg Puciato) on their lovely tour bus and sit down for a chat. We talked about their most recent record, their crazy on-stage antics and life on tour. Enjoy!

Ben: It’s so cold here!
Me: It is...
Greg: Its morbid!
Me: Yeah, I just moved here and this weather is just...

Thanks for taking the time to do this...
Meh tee mana soo (“Yo’ momma” in impressively comprehensible Greek)

Oh! Yeah, that’s one way to start this interview...
Skeeta (“Shit” in less comprehensible Greek).

Skata.
Oh yeah, sorry! I know all the essentials, all the important words. Skata!

So I’m guessing you picked that up during your last tour...
No, we have a lot of friends from Greece. Dimitri (Minakakis) used to be our first singer.

Oh yeah, of course...
Athanasios Apostolopoulos...

So, congrats on your new album, that was some really good stuff. It is also being received very well. In your opinion, what was different this time around?
Thank you! It is probably rather similar to our previous releases, just our lives and our circumstances are slightly different I guess. I would say, if you had to pick out some specific differences about this record, I guess, that we could say that every song was specifically written for this record. In the past we would be writing songs for a record and then I would pick something out of my hard-drive, something I worked on in the past, and then we would be like “we need to finish up this record, we need three more song, let us grab some songs”. This meant that those songs could be rather different to those we were working on for the record. Some of that was cool, cause it created diversity in the record. Songs like “Parasitic Twins” on our last album, or “Widower”, some of our piano songs.  For this record, every single song was specifically written for it, all during a single time period, which was a little bit different to what we were used to.  Also, we had kind of a studio set up in my house, which is where we wrote most of the record. That created a convenient way to do a lot of detailed demoing before getting into the studio. A lot of what was going, just out of natural instinct, made it to the record. We would be jamming, Bill (drums) and I would be working on an idea, a guitar lead, a synth idea, something just out of instinct.  We could simply record that at home and transfer it straight to the record itself.

How did your new record deal effect the release?
We were on Relapse Records for many years, which is kind of a heavy, grindcore metal label, and it was really great. Great bands, great culture around that label, but it was a little confining you know. We were contractually obligated to the label for many many years. The industry is changing and the way people see music is changing, so when moving forward we wanted to make sure that we weren’t confining ourselves to a specific way of doing things. So, we started “Party Smasher Inc” umbrella, as a way to try different things and keep under one umbrella/label. On our last two records, this one and “Option Paralysis”, we had the Party Smasher Inc, where we collaborated with different labels in order to pull the thing through. In Europe, we pretty much released it all on our own, but in places like Australia and Japan we realized we needed help. In the US we collaborated with Sumerian Records. It was a way to try different things that could all fit under one stamp. And that’s pretty much how that’s worked.

Your band is definitely seen as “scene leaders” at the moment. How do you respond to that?
That’s just our fashion sense (laughs). I think that a lot of bands have become very popular in the recent years, and bands that are maybe younger were maybe influenced by us when they were kids. We’ve been around for so long now that we have gotten to a point where we can see our fans grow up, having stayed with us for a very long time, and then create their own bands, getting their own big exposure.

Yeah, I was about to say, bands like Leprous and Periphery state that  you guys are their main influence...
Yeah! I remember seeing all those kinds of bands. I remember seeing Tosin (Abasi) from Animals As Leaders at our shows as a younger dude. Like, every show in Baltimore he would be in the front row, rocking out! The Periphery guys… Even bands like Bring Me The Horizon have told us that they used to get together and say “let’s make a band like Dillinger”. I mean, even Every Time I Die, a band that is older, they met at a Dillinger Escape Plan show! I think it is just, being around as long as we have, we just had the opportunity to effect some things…

Which was that band for you, when you were growing up?
Umm, there were some bands that, collectively, that myself and the guys that initially started the band, dug. It was a combination of a lot of death metal bands, cause we were into the extreme. Morbid Angel, Carcass, Death, things like that… And then, there were some hardcore stuff we were listening to, bands like Dead Guy, who are heavily influenced by Black Flag and stuff like that, who, when we were younger, they were a newer band… Bands like, Today Is The Day, Neurosis, stuff like that. There was also the jazz fusion stuff that we all dug. Mahavishnu Orchestra, King Crimson… The guys in the band when we started were all collectively very differ… Oh, and Cynic! Two of those guys were on the Death record called “Human” that we all loved and Cynic then was a band that we all dug, but not a lot of people knew at the time. We kind of all came together through the camaraderie of liking a band that nobody knows. Cynic was definitely one of those bands for me growing up…

You are a busy man! You have a gazillion side projects going on. What are you working on now?
Dillinger has been the primary focus for the past two years pretty much, but I have gotten half way through with Giraffe Tongue Orchestra which is a project with myself, John Theodore from Queens of the Stone Age (and Mars Volta), Brent Hinds from Mastodon and Eric Avery from Jane’s Addiction. We have about six songs completed for that and when I get back home around the holidays we are going to complete that, get in the studio and hopefully record that. That’s nice. Everyone is obviously quite busy in that project…

What kind of style does that follow?
You know, it is one of those things that it doesn’t sound like any one of our bands, but you can clearly, distinctly hear our style. You can hear Brent’s guitar, my style, Avery’s classic melodic bass lines, John Theodore’s tone that he gets… When he hits a drum… All the drummers I have played with – and I have played with really good drummers – he is somebody that I can say “you know it’s him”. You can put him on pots and pans and a garbage can and soon as he hits it, it sounds like John Theodore, and that for me is really interesting, to play with someone who can pull sound out of an instrument like that. Even if he isn’t playing on something that you have heard him play on – say the Mars Volta record – it still sounds like him, you know. It is really hard for me to say what it sounds like, because  you can’t really compare it to any of our bands, but you hear all of us in it. It’s kind of a collective rock album, or something like that…

I was a big fan of your cover EP, “Plagiasrism”. Are there any plans on doing something similar to that? What would you enjoy covering?
Umm, we recently have been doing a Depeche Mode cover, which we have enjoyed doing. We’ve played it live a few times as well. Greg and I are huge Depeche Mode fans, so it has been kindah special to both be able to play that. That was one of my first concerts I ever went to…

Which track is it?
“Behind The Wheel”. We really made it our own. On the “Plagiarism” EP, a lot of that stuff we just covered. We didn’t really alter them that much. It was just fun. I think that if ever did another covers thing, we would try to alter it a little more, change it around. There were covers we did in the past that we did rather butcher and changed around, like the Guns n Roses cover (“My Michelle”), the Black Flag cover (“Damaged” – both parts) and stuff like that. I don’t know if we would plan to do a whole EP of covers, but we will definitely record some for fun.

You guys are pretty famous for your on-stage presence. What do you remember being the worst thing that happened during a live show?
It’s funny you asked that, cause last night might have been one of the worst nights… It didn’t result in anything tragic… I guess you could say it was one of the luckiest things that ever happened. Aberdeen. I fell from very high up, upside down, straight down on to my head , on the monitors. I hurt my neck and my head… My guitar just snapped, all the strings just flew out. I thought I was dead. It was one of those things that I was thinking “There is no way I’m walking. I cannot walk. There is no way I’m going to be able to walk after this”.  You kindah just touch yourself, “Holy Shit!”, you know, “I’m OK”. I banged my elbow pretty bad, I broke my guitar, my back hurts, but I’m walking (laughs)… It was one of those things where the security guy at the front was like white. “That guy is dead”. I was looking at him and after every song he was mouthing “Are you OK?”. He couldn’t believe it, cause he saw it, “That guy is dead, he gotta be dead”.

Has there ever been a time when a promoter or a venue was like “Guys, stop it, dial it down”?
Yeah, all the time.

How do you respond to that? Just blow ‘em off?
It depends man… We are really appreciative that we can play, that people want us to come to their clubs. We’re not just these… we are not trying to create… we’re not trying to be mischievous…we’re not here to start a riot, to be a mess, to be delinquents. We are about the art, we are about the music. The show is all about uninhibited free expression for us.  When we first started, it really was just like an event. We weren’t doing this for a career; we weren’t doing it for the money. I mean, I lost money for at least four or five years whilst being in the band. The show was a way for after school, or work, after a long week, to play a show and just vent. So, we’ve always tried to have as much genuine free expression as possible and continue to use this as an opportunity for that, even after all these years, and try to keep that passion and that energy in our shows as an outlet. Obviously, sometimes you don’t know the line, and we don’t like people telling us how far we can take it, or how we should be doing it. We don’t like to create barriers, as our music represents, you know, breaking rules and pushing back boundaries. But, there are times that we take it too far, like a venue doesn’t want us back (laughs)…

Do you find UK clubs worse in that sort of aspect? Me, coming from Greece... there is a security guard standing at every meter at a UK show...
There was an incident in the United States where a band called Great White was playing in a smaller club. They used to be a big hair metal band in the 90’s… They were playing in smaller clubs and they tried to do some big pyro, something that they probably would have done when they were a big band in the 90’s, and it lit the whole club on fire, people died… After that incident it got much stricter in the US. They wouldn’t let a lot of people in, they were very strict about fire exits and health and safety and all that stuff. It did get a little stricter… I think it always depended on the type of show you are playing and the venue than the country. When we were playing in self organized punk places back in the day – and we still do that occasionally now – obviously things like security and that aren’t invasive. There are no barricades and things like that. When we play other venues, we still try to keep it as intimate as possible and not have barricades and a big space between the crowds. Sometimes it’s just the law or the rules of that club so you can’t avoid it. It does get distracting at times… A wall of security guards or something… It varies everywhere.

You’ve kindah been unlucky with bandmates actually staying in the band. Your first frontman left to pursuit a career in graphic design, your previous guitarist went on to do movie stuff… Who do you think is the next to go and what creative outlet will he ditch you guys for?
Ben: (Laughs) Greg! Did you hear that?
Greg: (From inside the bus) What? Who is the next to go?
Ben: Yeah, and what will he do? Jeff went to do movie stuff, Dimitri did graphic design stuff…
Greg: Ben will probably go.
Ben: I will become a ballerina.
Greg: I dunno, we’ve had the same lineup for the last two records… I wanted to add to the “What made this album different” question is that you (Ben) didn’t have to teach anybody.
Ben: Yeah, there wasn’t much time spent on teaching people how do our songs. James our current guitarist used to play in the band in the past, so its kind of not that he left, but he took a break for seven years…
Greg: He might take another break, who knows…
Ben: I mean, honestly it’s a tough thing. James hasn’t toured that much because… Man, seven years ago, and the first time he left was because the touring situation was too difficult to him

I’m guessing things have changed a bit since then (pointing to the rather fancy tour bus)
Ben: No, we were in a bus then too (laughs). We’ve been in small quarters with eleven people for almost two months straight. You are away from your family, your girlfriend, your wife, whoever… If you’re not used to being around people all the time, its really hard. There is nowhere to go. This is a private as it gets, right now. Everybody is inside (the venue), it is never like this. It’s people on top of each other, talking, farting, complaining, getting in your way…
Greg: Not wanting to watch the same thing on TV, whatever…
Ben: I think he has had a little rough time socializing… Actually, what’s this here? (shows crossword puzzle from today’s newspaper). 8 across “Unsociable person”, 5 letters…
Greg: Are you serious? Who wrote that?
Ben: I did, and I left it here (laughs). We might have to have a bet to see just how long he will last. But no, sometimes just having breaks between tours refreshes you like that… Hopefully we won’t be having any member changes any time soon.

I was curious how you guys ended up touting with Maybeshewill, because you guys are really, really different...
Well, for one, we have the same booking agent, so they suggested we put them in. We heard them and we said that this sounds like the band that we would like to take along on tour. When we were all younger… Greg and I were going to shows back in the day in DC. I think he saw Incubus and System Of A Down  in the same show, in a little club that we used to play…
Greg: For like one hundred people!
Ben: You know what I mean? Early System Of A Down and early Incubus were pretty different. When I used to go see local hardcore shows, the bands playing were all so drastically different. There would be a pop-punk band next to a vegan straight edge hardcore band, next to whatever… Nobody asked questions, it wasn’t weird at all. We all came from the same scene, we just have different influences. Then we started to get really grouped into little styles of music, and it is even worse now than eveρ. You are either this or that and that’s boring. What we strive to do is raise our fans up to a higher level of acceptance. Show them that maybe they would like different kind of music. If something is good, its good. Hearing 4 hours of the same type of band is worthless, it does nothing for you. It doesn’t challenge your senses, it doesn’t tap into different emotions and feelings. A band like Maybeshewill is instrumental and has a different kind of dynamic, and is obviously into very different influences and trying different things. Three Trapped Tigers as well (third name on the bill). To us, we all seem to have the some kind of attitude, even though the music is slightly different. That’s why we put this bill together, with that in mind.

Greg, I know for a fact that you have a bleached t-shirt from your show in Greece hanging on your wall and the owner says “hi”.
The one that says “Hide Yo Kids, Hide Your Wife”? That’s awesome, yeah I still have that!

Do you guys have any other fond memories from that night? We don’t get a lot of bands like you guys...
Greg: That gig was really special!
Ben: It was really special because there are very little places in the world that we haven’t played – and not only played, but played more than once. That tour, we ended  it with Isreal and Greece, the last two shows we played, and they were both two of the best shows we  have played in years! Not only because we were playing for your new people who are hungry, excited and appreciative, but it was – culturally – an interesting place to be. It was very welcoming and accepting and great. We do have this weird connection with Greece, we have really good friends from there, like Dimitri. Him being our first singer and being from Greece, being around his family. Our old tour manager, Tom, he is Greek too. We feel that this band has this connection with Greece in some way.  I’ve been to Greece with him for vacation and to see his family. So, when I play there, to see that our music can bring us there and connect us with like-minded people from somewhere so far away is really cool.

That’s great! So, last question cause I’ve kind of stolen a lot of your time. You (Ben) are particularly vocal about your opinions regarding the music industry and what not. Streaming services like Spotify are getting heat from many musicians lately. What are your thoughts on it?
Streaming is the future! It is funny cause in places where downloading has caught on less, streaming has caught on more. In Europe, in general there is a lot more music streaming going on, and I am curious to see how it will affect the world as things get faster, the Internet gets faster. I think that the people want access to everything, immediately, in good quality and easily. As things get faster there is no easier way to do it than streaming. Things like Spotify gives you access to millions and millions of songs, the catalogue is just endless. As musicians, as much as we would like to make more money from our art, I think we value inspiration more than access to customers, if you know what I mean. Having access to something… Greg sent me two links today. “Check out these artists, they’re really good!”. I pressed it and streamed it on Spotify in the coffee place and it got me really pumped. Personally, I use it, I think its great, I love it. If the question is how it is going to affect the business, that’s a whole other question, but I do believe it is the future. I get more out of it than I lose.

Thank you guys so much! That was great!
Thank you!

Jason Tsimplakos